As LOTV is approaching, many people are returning to the site. As our community grows, if it isn't moderated to an acceptable standard and admin warnings aren't respected, new visitors will be turned off thinking this site isn't well moderated therefore not well run. Also, sponsors want a positive professional environment to be associated with so we have to maintain a certain standard and if the talks go through you can look forward to some well sponsored tournaments coming soon. I've rarely thrown out any infractions, let alone warnings. Yesterday though, after reading through the chat-box, I sadly had to throw out a few infractions. Before this escalates and bans have to be issued, I've decided to re-post what warrants an infraction on the site. This makes it transparent and fair, and moderators will be able to maintain an acceptable standard on the forum.
The table below shows what warrants an infraction.
Infraction
Points
Minor - QQing about imbalance without any constructiveness in the post
1
Minor - Repeatedly making new threads with poor content / poorly named title / under wrong forum
1
Minor - Repeatedly making new threads to ask simple questions when you could have used the search box
1
Minor - Repeatedly double/multi posting instead of using the "edit post" or "delete post" button
1
Minor - Trolling the chat
1
Minor - Insulting other users
1
Medium - Needlessly starting new threads for self advertisement/promotion
2
Medium - Derailing a thread with a flame or something silly off-topic
2
Medium - Low content reply with little effort or relevance
2
Major - Insulting other members
3
Major - Immature behaviour / vulgarities / tasteless sexual references
4
Major - Racism
5
What does it all mean?
-Warnings-
Usually given to new members of the community that don't know the rules well. These will not land you infraction points. You will receive infraction points only if you make the same mistake again. So don't feel too bad, but please don't commit the same mistake again.
-Infractions-
Basically any of the offenses listed above gives you points depending on its seriousness. Infractions points expire after 30 days after they are given and you will have a clean slate after that.
-Auto-Ban-
If you reach a certain number of infraction points before they clear, you will be temporarily banned for a certain time period.
5 Infraction points = 3 day site ban which will automatically be lifted after that period
7 Infraction points = 7 day site ban which will automatically be lifted after that period
-Permanent Ban-
Although rarely issued, temporary and permanent bans can also be issued. These are usually issued for serious offenses and extremely disruptive behavior.
-Disputing An Infraction-
If you feel that you've been infracted unjustly, you can always appeal to another mod, or to the mod that sent you the infraction to explain the situation.
Together, lets bring back that warm fuzzy feeling from 2011 and make SC2SEA a better place.
Last edited by cure; Tue, 7th-Apr-2015 at 8:59 PM.
Can returning people come back? I get the rules and why they're there, but the community has changed a lot since 2011. Lots of people have left, while others arrived or simply stayed behind, and these people are the staple of this community. This post is essentially calling for a change in how we, as a community, operate. For instance, insults/slander/general bad manner is pretty common now, and I think a lot of the people here enjoy that (correct me if I'm wrong people) because it's fun to poke and jab, and get jabbed and poked by others.
If you (all the mods, not just you) want to come back after years of inactivity and talk about banning and disciplining people from a site that they've frequented for such a long period of time, for essentially having their own culture, I fail to see how that is fair or just.
If you want to do an overhaul of how SC2SEA is run, may I suggest it start at the top and work its way down? Not everyone wants to see everyone else get banned for what is simply considered humour around here now.
Can returning people come back? I get the rules and why they're there, but the community has changed a lot since 2011. Lots of people have left, while others arrived or simply stayed behind, and these people are the staple of this community. This post is essentially calling for a change in how we, as a community, operate. For instance, insults/slander/general bad manner is pretty common now, and I think a lot of the people here enjoy that (correct me if I'm wrong people) because it's fun to poke and jab, and get jabbed and poked by others.
If you (all the mods, not just you) want to come back after years of inactivity and talk about banning and disciplining people from a site that they've frequented for such a long period of time, for essentially having their own culture, I fail to see how that is fair or just.
If you want to do an overhaul of how SC2SEA is run, may I suggest it start at the top and work its way down? Not everyone wants to see everyone else get banned for what is simply considered humour around here now.
+1 to this.
I'm a bit surprised that "trolling in chat" is an infraction since trolling is essentially a part of how we roll around here, it's extremely common and only unjust when taken too far. However most people understand where the line is with trolling and have enough self-discipline to stop.
Cure I for 1 applaud this post, will be nice to see a lot of negative remarks removed and people actually warned against the abusive nature, unfortunately, a few people don't see a line when 'trolling' others.
I understand Flux's point of view that it's now 'culture' to insult and slander certain people or individuals, but people need to come to terms, with how things have been the past 2-3 weeks it has gotten out of hand.
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Gravity
Formerly known as GravityAD
Hey look, old mods that left the site have returned to be Nazis!
Get with the times, friends. Maybe you should see how this place has been for the past year and look at how much it's changed. Pretty poor effort to just come back out of nowhere and putting up this shit without even bothering to understand the new community.
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NA | KR.
Known for a time as mGGCrayonPop and mGGxJieun
Q_Q'd.
Can returning people come back? I get the rules and why they're there, but the community has changed a lot since 2011. Lots of people have left, while others arrived or simply stayed behind, and these people are the staple of this community. This post is essentially calling for a change in how we, as a community, operate. For instance, insults/slander/general bad manner is pretty common now, and I think a lot of the people here enjoy that (correct me if I'm wrong people) because it's fun to poke and jab, and get jabbed and poked by others.
If you (all the mods, not just you) want to come back after years of inactivity and talk about banning and disciplining people from a site that they've frequented for such a long period of time, for essentially having their own culture, I fail to see how that is fair or just.
If you want to do an overhaul of how SC2SEA is run, may I suggest it start at the top and work its way down? Not everyone wants to see everyone else get banned for what is simply considered humour around here now.
I don't think a lot of the people enjoy. It takes one person with the same trollish attitude to bring in the others with trollish attitude, and that will leave out those who want peace. The community doesn't just consist of the outspoken ones who are trash-talking in the chat all the time, it also consists of people who sometimes come to the chat and just want to see a nice flowing conversation, instead of what has been frequently seen the past few days.
If you (everyone else, not just you) find insulting others enjoyable, we will not stop you from doing it to one another in private. This however, is a community site open to all people of all ages and races. Take for example you post a racist or sexual joke in the chat box, directed to your friend. How will it look to a potential sponsor or someone new to the site? As stated earlier, we do value our veteran members of the community, the ones that have stayed throughout. Hence, we issue warnings to such members, but ignoring warnings repeatedly will result in an infraction.
There's a difference between trolling and blatantly insulting someone else. One is when you have the intention of light and humorous banter, and at the same time the other person gets it. But when you say things with the intention to evoke certain emotions from the other person, and the other person doesn't like what you are saying, that's wrong. I hope we can all respect each other here.
I believe I can say that I'm a more "relevant" mod if you guys like to put it that way, and this is a decision that the relevant and non-relevant mods have come together and agreed on. This isn't a culture, this is just a passing moment because of recent events, because of people who want drama for the sake of drama, and not drama that happens naturally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swarmstika
However most people understand where the line is with trolling and have enough self-discipline to stop.
I don't think a lot of the people enjoy. It takes one person with the same trollish attitude to bring in the others with trollish attitude, and that will leave out those who want peace. The community doesn't just consist of the outspoken ones who are trash-talking in the chat all the time, it also consists of people who sometimes come to the chat and just want to see a nice flowing conversation, instead of what has been frequently seen the past few days.
If you (everyone else, not just you) find insulting others enjoyable, we will not stop you from doing it to one another in private. This however, is a community site open to all people of all ages and races. Take for example you post a racist or sexual joke in the chat box, directed to your friend. How will it look to a potential sponsor or someone new to the site? As stated earlier, we do value our veteran members of the community, the ones that have stayed throughout. Hence, we issue warnings to such members, but ignoring warnings repeatedly will result in an infraction.
There's a difference between trolling and blatantly insulting someone else. One is when you have the intention of light and humorous banter, and at the same time the other person gets it. But when you say things with the intention to evoke certain emotions from the other person, and the other person doesn't like what you are saying, that's wrong. I hope we can all respect each other here.
I believe I can say that I'm a more "relevant" mod if you guys like to put it that way, and this is a decision that the relevant and non-relevant mods have come together and agreed on. This isn't a culture, this is just a passing moment because of recent events, because of people who want drama for the sake of drama, and not drama that happens naturally.
I don't think so.
If yourself and the other mods want to use sponsorship concerns as a legitimate reason for handing out warnings/infractions/bans like candy, then maybe you should start warning/infracting/banning everyone who jumped ship and left sc2sea dead in the water? As far as I've seen, there are about 3 mods that are actually active on this site. Everyone else just sits in a skype call and occasionally chimes in when they feel it's necessary to comment on a community of which they are no longer a part? And now they want to come back and impose their opinions on a community which is distinct from them, hmm. I don't really think that's fair. You're welcome to have your old dogs' club of mods if that's what you want, but why make decisions that affect a community that doesn't even know who these people are?
If your concern is sponsorship related, then remove the chatbox. Like it has been said before, lots of new people view the chatbox as they arrive at the site, because it's the first thing that they see when they arrive at the homepage. Hell, while you're at it, why not re-design the whole site? Because a lot of people have voiced their opinions on how clunky and difficult to navigate sc2sea is. Of course, I'm sure the majority of mods are already aware as they've been secretly a part of this community but not posting/contributing to anything for the past 3-4 years, right?
If the mods' concern is something that ISN'T sponsorship related, which I presume it is, otherwise the above would be the easiest fix for those concerns, then why don't they come out and actually say it? Have all the old mods somehow developed fear of contributing to this community and that's why they don't post any more? Maybe we should start a new era of SC2SEA with a site re-design, a leadership re-structure, and a re-written set of rules that reflects the changes that the community wants.
To put things in perspective, this thread sets the guidelines for when a person(s) gets an infraction/ban/warning etc.
I would like to appeal for everyone to not over react and stay calm. Think of the bigger picture.
We are rather concerned about the recent state of e.g. the chatbox and some posts in threads and even some blogs which have crossed many lines lately.
I believe everyone is hoping for a good community where discussions, chit chats etc can take place. While I agree that each person can be entitled to speak his/her opinions, there is also the silent majority who may or may not agree with what is being said as well. And there have been feelings hurt and even angered.
No thanks to the episode(s) that occurred yesterday and recently, which concerns us greatly, I have heard at least 2 people who arent active in our chatbox but obviously do follow our chats, expressed their disappointment on the state of things or stuff said.
Is that what we really want? Do we really want a community with no guidelines for behaviour etc? So that people who really do cross the line can get away or think they can do whatever they like EVEN if it means to insult the community or person(s) that we know?
So before anyone get very upset and emotional and I know many who are attached to the site and the chatbox, I appeal to all to understand the rationale behind this thread and guidelines mentioned.
Please take a step back and consider that while we want an environment where we can express our opinions, have open discussions, share builds, frustrations (not the person) or to encourage each other etc etc, we do not want a toxic community either. And these guidelines is to attempt to achieve the kind of community I believe we all want.
It isnt just about sponsorship or whatever nout. It is just plain common sense and all of us wanting a community or be part of a community we can be proud of.
Can I appeal that we be more understanding, kind and respectful on whole?
The older mods are back, not to be nazi mods as claimed. They are back because they are also concerned for this site. In their own ways, they are trying to do what is best for the site.
Once again, I appeal for understanding and to consider the bigger picture. I'm not big with words but I hope that all of you can understand what I'm trying to say.
Thank you
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player in
"and we'll invest more on Bots, as our first Trial bot, the 'NemBotElie' was a huge success, organising tournaments and being part of the Council of mGG. But there are a few bugs in which the bot cannot go past the skill level of a Platinum Protoss." - PaRAnorMaL
Last edited by mGGNemesis; Tue, 7th-Apr-2015 at 9:42 PM.
To add to Nem's post, the guidelines were already posted in 2011. With the recent influx of trolling, and yesterday's events in the chatbox, we decided to repost the guidelines for everyone. Our main concern here is the attitude of members of the community that think that it's okay to insult another person just because nothing for done for a period of time. Sponsorship is an issue, but it's not the main and not only one. Talks of redesigning the site have been ongoing, and the removal of the chat box is something discussed. Now if we can stop the unpleasant attitude that a selected few members of our community have in the chat box, we can keep it. Wouldn't that be a better solution ?
To put things in perspective, this thread sets the guidelines for when a person(s) gets an infraction/ban/warning etc.
I would like to appeal for everyone to not over react and stay calm. Think of the bigger picture.
We are rather concerned about the recent state of e.g. the chatbox and some posts in threads and even some blogs which have crossed many lines lately.
Then why has so much gone unpunished in the past? I've been a part of this community for over 3 years and I've yet to have received an infraction, warning, or ban. I think a lot of people know that I can be quite outspoken and overzealous with my language, and a lot of people are in the same boat as I am. It seems pretty clear to me what's trying to be achieved, and I agree that some action may need to be taken against certain individuals who take it too far (I'll freely admit that I fall in this category). But the way to go about disciplining this community is not to bring back people who haven't been a part of its scene or unique culture for years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cure
Now if we can stop the unpleasant attitude that a selected few members of our community have in the chat box, we can keep it. Wouldn't that be a better solution ?
I think the attitude that people who are no longer part of a community in any meaningful way think that there's no harm in returning and enforcing their ideals is an unpleasant attitude. If you want these rules to be enforced, then maybe they should be enforced by people who are significant contributors to this community.
I'm irritated at the state of the current social climate in sc2sea as well. It's gotten out of hand a couple of times, but time and time again there are never people around to police well and with an understanding hand. How can someone moderate and tell what is banter from what is an insult when you don't understand the people who are saying these things? I know for a fact that Chase was infracted for a joke he made last night to ME in chatbox, and I've said much worse myself. If you want to police the chatbox, then go nuts. If you want to have moderation of this community, then have moderators that are relevant. If I was concerned about something happening in the sc2sea community, I've got four options to go to, Nemesis, Chadmann, Eddie or Elusory. Why do other mods even have moderator privileges any more if they aren't a part of this community.
Then why has so much gone unpunished in the past? I've been a part of this community for over 3 years and I've yet to have received an infraction, warning, or ban. I think a lot of people know that I can be quite outspoken and overzealous with my language, and a lot of people are in the same boat as I am. It seems pretty clear to me what's trying to be achieved, and I agree that some action may need to be taken against certain individuals who take it too far (I'll freely admit that I fall in this category). But the way to go about disciplining this community is not to bring back people who haven't been a part of its scene or unique culture for years.
Just because something went unpunished in the past doesn't make it right. Just to clarify, people aren't being "brought back" by anyone (moderator wise). No-one is being messaged and asked to come back -- I myself have always just lurked about checking the site every few weeks. Not sure about the others, but it isn't hard to distinguish banter contextually (e.g. being able to tell what's banter between friends and being a dick to someone). Again, if you think there's been a problem with punishment, take it up with the mod who did it, instead of saying the mods are useless / not involved enough.
I believe the list of mods were and are being reviewed. And many of the quieter mods who are more active recently have never really left. Not speaking in chatbox or making posts in forums, doesnt mean they arent following what is happening or reading the chatbox/posts in forums etc.
Wont you think that the admins would had considered who is active as mod and not as well? That being said, you have made a good point and I'm sure we'll discuss that as well. But also, please remember it doesnt mean that someone who is perceived as inactive isnt actually following the scene on this site as well. And it is true that there are mods who havent been around even with the recent events happening. Doesnt mean all of them.
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player in
"and we'll invest more on Bots, as our first Trial bot, the 'NemBotElie' was a huge success, organising tournaments and being part of the Council of mGG. But there are a few bugs in which the bot cannot go past the skill level of a Platinum Protoss." - PaRAnorMaL
Just because something went unpunished in the past doesn't make it right.
I agree with you. This is why I've already said previously that the rules need to be re-written and made relevant for the times so that any confusion is cleared up. It's obvious that the way this site is run has changed significantly over the past couple of years, and those changes needs to reflected in writing to ensure that everyone is on the same page. The above rules posted by cure are outdated and I believe a few things have changed since they were first written.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iM tgun
Just to clarify, people aren't being "brought back" by anyone (moderator wise). No-one is being messaged and asked to come back -- I myself have always just lurked about checking the site every few weeks.
You think that lurking and checking out the site justifies your position as a moderator? I enjoy your discussions in chatbox tgun, but honestly if you think that you're fit to moderate this community in its current state, you're sadly mistaken. Cure has posted one post since July 2013 that WASN'T in this thread (Posted TODAY), and that was in April 2014. I'm sure there are other examples, however I suppose the rest of these old mods are "lurking" around in the shadows, unseen somewhere perhaps..
If you want to be a part of a community, then you contribute. If you want to be a member of authority in the community, then you should be people who are respected and trusted by the community. How can we, as a community, be asked to respect and trust people who we've barely been introduced to, or who have not contributed in any way to what we are today? I'm sorry but I'm failing to see any logic in this way of thinking.
I stress again, old moderators who no longer contribute to our community in any meaningful way (yes, lurking and posting in chatbox once every 3-4 weeks does not count as meaningful) should not be policing this community.
I see where you guys are comin from, dudes not around all that much pop around and swing their hammers can't be a good feel. I don't think that's what cure is going for here.
I'm kind of like tgun in that I am someone who used to be around a lot, lurk every now and then to see wassup and never say too much, but all us moderators do talk and discuss stuff with eachother in an active enough skype group. I personally don't think having guidelines re-clarified is unfair, especially when you're more than welcome to appeal to that mod or any other mod and as I know all the mods I'd say we're all pretty reasonable ppl in the end (albeit busy from time to time, sorry about that)
Don't want this to be an unpleasant place, not too strict and not too crazy and it's as for mods as it is for users when there's no clear guidelines. There's growing pains with this stuff but it'll come good I promise!
Love,
Some inactive irrelevant mod who should be relieved of duty
From someone who checks every month or so. 90% of the time I don't even read threads anymore.
They're kinda just full of the same old trolling crap that makes it 'meh' to contribute, let alone read.
Change needs to happen, but it also needs to happen from the top down. Enforcing crazy rules will just drive this ghost ship further beneath the depths. Needs to be leeway from both sides.
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And You Will Shed Tears of Scarlet
Clan FaDe always in my Heart
I don't mind old mods popping in and taking part in the community and moderating the website. In fact, I welcome it. But when someone who hasn't participated on the website in a long time suddenly deals out so many infractions I can see how it may irk some people. The site has changed. Yeah it's not like it was back in 2011 when it thrived, but this doesn't mean it should be still be treated as if it was 2011. I'm not saying drop all the moderation and let the place run wild, I just want to get the point across that the culture of the site has changed, and certain norms and boundaries have been shifted or altered over time unintentionally.
Through the past 2 years I've actively spent on this site, I can say I've seen this change over time. My perception of the sc2sea's culture may not be the same as somebody who used to use the site actively in 2011 then stopped and has only recently come back. It's a lot more laid back. One small example of this point I'm trying to get across is in tournament sign ups where a lot of players now sign up like; fray'Chase.asdf, where as back when the site was in its prime people would write league details and character code; fray'Chase.380 etc etc
I see that you're trying to regulate the site and improve the user experience on it. I really know the intentions of the moderation last night were good, but it really doesn't give a good image on the person who dealt them. Maybe if it was an active moderator whos been on the site consistently for the past year or two and knows how the site has been functioning then the infraction may carry more mental weight/merit. But yeah I definitely agree the site needs to change because the past week or so things are definitely getting out of hand.
Just my two cents.
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~~ Represent!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterstarcraft
Don't ban chase
chase is legit
Last edited by syfChase; Tue, 7th-Apr-2015 at 10:57 PM.
When Elusory, Nemesis and Chadmann were made mods, every moderator who had not visited in the week or so prior was demoted to MVP. That is, all the remaining ones still lurked even if they don't post much or at all.
Despite that, the number of infractions has been few and far between. The moderation standard here has always been relaxed and the intention of this post isn't to announce a sudden toughening up of the moderation, or that inactive mods are coming to swing the banhammer.
This has arisen because many in the community (including veteran lurkers, active members from long ago and newer members) have expressed the view that blogs and the chat especially have recently been crossing into territory which is making people uncomfortable with increasing frequency.
The point of this is meant to be a circuit-breaker. Sometimes things go too far, and it's time to rein it in.
Just an overarching response to some of the concerns raised (and please forgive me if any of this seems ambiguous / rushed -- because... it is).
1. "The older mods who haven't been around don't understand the context between some of the banter!"
This is a fair point -- a few of us don't have a whole lot of context to dig up from, however, we aren't enforcing the rules as hard as everyone is apparently expecting. We're not about to infract you every single time you make a joke or banter with a friend. Hell, most of the time, a mod will just pop up in chat/thread whenever it's getting out of hand and say something before handing out infractions / taking "proper" action. A lot of the time background context isn't even entirely necessary.
2. "Rules need to be re-written"
I'd say less re-written and more be brought to a more concise list. There is a >lot< of out-dated stuff (I think the infraction system was written up in 2011 to try and cover most situations and hasn't been touched since), but the easiest way to explain this would be with what I call "tguns rules to life":
Rule 1: Don't be a dick.
Rule 2: Read rule 1.
Those two are the "biggest" concerns that I've seen. The other ones are that "old mods are dealing out too many infractions". Whenever I ask people to take it up properly, they simply deflect / claim something else is an issue. MOST infraction issues come up in a skype group which contains >ALL< the Moderators (new and old) and get discussed. For example, just because I'm handing out an infraction, doesn't mean I was the judge, jury and executioner. Most likely, at least one other person looked at it and decided the decision was fair.
Again, if you think you were hard done by, take it up with another mod and sort it out that way, instead of sitting in the chatbox saying "god these old mods are jackasses infracting me for no reason".
If you have any other issues which you want answered more directly, feel free to say so and I'll respond as best as I can. Like I've said before, though, I'd be happy to lose Mod status -- hell, I can't remember the last time I've infracted/silenced/banned someone, the title is literally just sitting there at this stage.
Last edited by iM tgun; Tue, 7th-Apr-2015 at 10:50 PM.
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