After the GG is an interview series where I celebrate a SEA player's moment of triumph, whether the event is local or on the international stage, and try to share their thoughts with you all.
This week I have a chat with Ryan '[SLCN] NXZ' Jones who recently rampaged through a SEA of zerg in the WCS Season 2 Qualifiers (You all knew that pun was coming ) and will soon make his debut in WCS Premier.
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Ryan, now that you've had a decent amount of time to let the fact of your victory sink in, could you share with us your feelings on having made it out of Challenger?
I honestly couldn't believe it at first. Even now when I think about it; it doesn't sink in that I'm actually going overseas. I think everyone's always had that moment when they've watched a big tournament and pictured themselves up on stage fighting for the prize and now - that could be a reality for me. It's insane.
I'd like to start at the very beginning of your run in the Ro16. You faced off against Fenner, and your very first game on Expedition Lost was an exciting back and forth. You started by fending off speedling harassment with roaches, lost your Lair to mutalisks, saved your 3rd with a clutch infestor+fungal+spore, countered with roaches, then killed off Fenner's mutalisk flock with your infestors. Your Roach/Hydra/Infestor composition eventually finished Fenner's army. What was your mindset in those early parts of the game when the mutalisks were running rampant? Can you tell us anything about your thought processes through each crisis Fenner inflicted on you prior to pulling it back and crushing him with an upgrade and tech advantage?
I think in that game I didn't really have a feel for what state the game was in. I was just sort of playing - sure the mutas did some damage here and there but on the whole I thought I was defending relatively well. (In hindsight, I think I was a lot more behind than I thought.) Losing the lair did hurt quite a bit but I still felt like I'd established a pretty strong army. My biggest worry was dealing with the back rocks in the main. I'm generally more comfortable with playing the role of the aggressor so I was just hoping I could hold on and eventually overwhelm with my superior composition. Fortunately, I was able to get some really nice trades such as the fungal on the mutas you mentioned and eventually come out on top. But it was really touch and go for a while there and even after I felt like I had the game in my hands; I was still really worried about a potential basetrade allowing him to snatch it away from my grasp.
Mutalisks which flock together get fungaled together
It was definitely a match which had me on the edge of my seat! Game Two on Echo opened up in a similar fashion, but this time Fenner complemented his mutalisks with a small hitsquad of three Swarmhosts with flying locusts, exploiting the airspace around the natural on that map. From a viewer's perspective those locust runbys looked brutal, and the economic lead Fenner was able to obtain eventually gave him the victory. I'd like your thoughts regarding Fenner's use of the new Swarmhosts in that game and, in hindsight, would there be anything you did differently if faced with that situation again?
I'm not sure what I would do. After that game it really felt like he'd just checkmate me if he was allowed to get mutas out. Especially since game 1 was so tight I really felt like; man, I can't beat this guy if he gets mutas out.
In regards to the swarmhosts; it was a cool usage for sure. I kind of feel that he could have played a regular follow-up and been just as effective given how much work his mutas got done. I don't think I would have done anything differently in hindsight, I'd just have to have been in a better position such that I could get out on the map and shut it down as soon as I could.
Game Three struck me as a complete mind game: Fenner had opened Hatchery first in both games, and in game three you 9-pooled him, killing 6 drones to gain a small lead. Despite that, things looked touch and go for a bit when he attempted those ling/bane busts, destroying the roach warren in your wall-off. Please share with us some thoughts about that third game, and how winning the first series affected your mindset leading into the rest of the Ro16 qualifiers.
I was quite familiar with Fenner's ideas about the matchup at the time. Given that knowledge, I figured he would either open with the greedy hatch first again or he would go for a 10 pool bane. Either way, I definitely didn't want to get stuck in another pool first vs hatch first muta situation so I figured that the 9 pool would result in the best outcome for me.
He actually did something really smart with his follow-up all in which people might not have caught. He transferred a large majority of drones to his natural while building up only lings. My overlord saw his drone count and I felt like I'd botched my 9 pool - after all he had so many drones! That's why I was so greedy with my drone count and that almost cost me the game. It only clicked just how all in he was when I saw that his army count wasn't growing at the rate it should have and he still wasn't droning which was maybe a few seconds before he gg'd.
It was a huge relief because I really felt like beating Fenner had to be a given for me these days as opposed to the touch matchup its been in the past. Clutching the series out was pretty huge for me. I remember I made a few tweets praising his play, it was really impressive. I made it through though which is what mattered and I think at that point I was just preparing myself for my next series with Demi.
That series was an example of why I never get tired of ZvZ, and was an exciting way to kick off the day's streaming. Next, let's talk about one of the highest profile matches in the friendly rivalry between clan [Kid] and clan [Adults]: your games against DemiLove. In your first game on Vaani Research Station you resurrected the old SEA staple of ZvZ: the Jerry Build. Please share with us what led to your choice of build. Did the outcome of that game influence your choice to 9pool in the following game?
So because of the way Vaani is with the back door expansion, the ramp that you can wall off with queens isn't between your bases. This means that if a player goes for a ling bane attack, their opponent has to defend both bases and their drones are always vulnerable (as opposed to just blocking the ramp and keeping everything important in the main). I knew to beat Demi I needed to take some risks so I decided to take the gamble on him not going for an early pool and go straight for the huge hatch gas pool ling bane all in. Worked out perfectly .
For the 9 pool, it's just a build I'm really comfortable with and Coda is a great map for it. No deeper thought than that.
Evil. In game two on Coda, DemiLove mirrored you with a 9-pool of his own, which led to one of those brutal ling/bane knife fights we see so often in SEA tournaments. DemiLove came out on top of that exchange, and transitioned to mutalisk harass. Much like game two against Fenner, that mutalisk containment led to an economic lead which eventually won DemiLove the game. What are your thoughts on that game, and mutalisks in the current ZvZ meta?
Well in that game I wanted to straight up kill him with a roach bane follow up that I was improvising as I went. When it failed I think I was quite a bit behind which put me in a rough spot to deal with his mutas. He did well to catch me out of position to end the game though.
I think that mutas are very good at punishing mistakes. But at the same time, I think they are objectively worse if your opponent doesn't make any mistakes. I think there's not a lot of room for comebacks against mutas as opposed to the much more back and forth roach mid game. However, I think if the roach player is on his game, he should come out ahead generally.
In game three on Expedition Lost you chose to use the Jerry build again, but DemiLove scouted the speedling flood before it left your base. It was incredible watching him hold that speedling rush with just a spinecrawler and three queens, losing only 6 drones during the attack. Although the game took some interesting turns after that (which I will come to in my next question), I'd like to know what your thoughts were in that moment where your attack had done minimal damage to one of the other principal contenders for Challenger and your tournament life was on the line.
In that game I was just planning to do a light pressure with my speedlings before going back into droning. I was actually very satisfied with the damage I got done given my investment and thought I was at least even if not a little ahead after the trade.
The game transitioned into what looked like a normal roach war until we saw burrow and tunneling claws being researched. I won't lie: I cheered when I saw those appear in the production tab. Your small hitsquad of roach land sharks ended up killing 13 drones, even while you were desperately holding off DemiLove's push against your 3rd while waiting for more larvae and roaches to be producted. Was this a strategy you had planned, or an adaptation to an aspect of DemiLove's play in that game?
That's just how I like to play the matchup so I guess more of a plan? But yeah, that game definitely got really down to the wire for a few moments there. Of course I was ecstatic when I managed to get the win. I respect Demi a lot these days and being able to take him out and advance to the winners semis for a guaranteed career high placing in WCS was huge for me.
<Insert Jaws Theme Here, because Land Sharks OP>
It was definitely enjoyable watching you and DemiLove go head to head. Your next games against zerg team mate [SLCN] Law were not featured on a stream, though the brackets showed you took that series 2-0. Could you please share with us how those matches went down, and what strategies were brought to the table by yourself and Lawrence in that series.
So to provide some context, my only preparation for this event was a few games off racing as protoss on the SEA server. So the morning of I was trying to get in a bit of ZvZ practice before the tournament started. This was a really funny series because neither Lawrence nor I really figured we'd make it this far into the bracket so we figured we could practice together and not really care about it. And then we both made it this far so that was pretty awesome albeit somewhat amusing. Essentially, I was able to get the build order win with 9 pool against 15 hatch in the first game and then managed to defend his 10 pool bane with my 15 hatch in the second game. He unfortunately made a mistake in forgetting to get his bane nest which delayed him enough for me to hold quite solidly and take the 2-0.
After playing Law you had your first run-in with Blysk during the Ro16, and a non-zerg opponent. It represented your first lost series of the competition. In the first game your gas-into-12 pool was scouted and Blysk responded well. In the second game things were looking good until what seemed to be a mistimed push before tunnelling claws was ready. Can you share some insights on that first series with Blysk, and has it affected your ZvP preparations after Challenger was won?
Blysk just really has my number. He's really skilled and my ZvP was in a very weak place at the time. I didn't have a lot of preparation for the series so I was doing my best to somehow steal a few wins away, whether that was through the 13/12 or through roach burrow move shenanigans. I have a long way to go in the matchup before I can compete with Blysk but I hope for next time I can put up a stronger fight.
Well, your ZvP may not have been enough to take down Blysk, but you certainly didn't seem shaky when you took out Frustration 2-0, whose PvZ had knocked out KingkOng earlier that day. The first game on Echo was an incredible macro with late-game back-and-forth engagements with ultralisks, vipers, and broodlords facing off against collossus, immortals, and archons. But it was game two which I'd like to ask about: You endured a sustained gateway assault over the course of several in-game minutes. Those of us watching were incredibly impressed with how you held that and turn it around. Please share with us your thought processes in that game.
That series immediately followed the drama with Law's series. I went from about to play Law where I'd have to win a single game to his three in a row to qualify for challenger, to playing Frustration in a bo3 who had just eliminated my friend in a controversial manner. I needed to win. I needed that revenge. I needed to get that challenger spot and there was no way I was going to lose to frustration to get it. And I think that determination really showed in my play, especially so in the second game.
I got the scouting info I needed and I knew that if I just didn't die I could always bring it back and take him out in a longer game. Eventually getting the basetrade was very stressful but I managed to come out ahead at which point I knew that I just needed to not get caught with my pants down and I had the game in the bag.
In regards to placing challenger, I was so stoked and spent the rest of the day texting all my friends and celebrating. I'd completely outdone my own expectations and it was incredibly exciting.
5 seconds after this shot, the broodlords had the protoss army running home
Your determination not to lose most definitely showed in those games. To wrap up the Ro16 you ended up having a Bo1 with Blysk to determine seeding. I just wanted to ask your opinion: is building carriers considered BM?
Why are mutas so bad against carriers dude? WHY DID NO ONE TELL ME! Ah! So embarrassing ;;
I don't think anyone has ever played against carriers before With Challenger obtained you now had the benefit of only one opponent to prepare for. Before we get into your incredible series against Jared 'PiG' Krensel, would you share with us how you prepared for him?
I sat down with Lawrence and we pretty much just ran through where my strengths lied and where his lied. Primarily, my strengths would be in my 9 pool and roach vs roach games. On the other hand, he would have the advantage in ling bane wars and in the roach infestor and further stages of the game.
So my next thought were how I would want to play on the maps. We started with Vaani. I knew that 9 pool was really strong on the map so we sat down and played a ton of 9 pool vs 15 pool games where I consistently managed to kill 2 or 3 drones which is more than enough damage to equalise the game (obviously huge B/O advantage against hatch first).
From there, I thought that if I wanted to win I probably wanted to keep as many coin flip four player maps as possible to get as much chance of getting a free win in as possible. I also figured I'd need at least one map where I'd take him on straight up. I decided that expedition lost would be that map; given the back rocks, it is hugely beneficial for my style and I at the same time weak for the roach infestor play where he would beat me. The problem was that I knew there was a very good chance he would open mutas which would force us straight to that roach infestor game state where he'd have a huge lead. As such, I developed a reactive roach bane all in off the build I planned on doing anyway which no one managed to hold in my practice games.
In terms of vetos, I knew that he would very likely veto a 4 player map because he wanted to keep the games as straight up as he could. Inferno pools being the worst of the 3 was the most likely map so I pretty much cut it out of any preparation. I decided for my veto I would get rid of echo, a map with a very easily defendable 3 base where he'd be very comfortable and able to play his game exactly how he wanted.
That left the two 4 player maps and Coda. Coda as I mentioned is a very strong map for 9 pool which again I was very comfortable with and I felt like between Coda and Vaani I'd be able to take at least one win. Then for Cactus Valley I decided I'd go for a really risky opening into a very fast carapace (before bane nest) as opposed to some kind of sneaky all in. I figured he'd expect some sort of early game aggression and by going to the other extreme I'd be able to get the edge. I left the other 4 player map up to how I felt during the series.
From there, I practised each of these scenarios constantly with Law and how I'd come out with the game going the way I wanted no matter how he played on each map.
I also watched most of his ZvZ vods in recent times, (both his series with Targa and also KK in challenger included) to confirm any habits I knew from my experience with him in the past as both a teammate and mentor.
And from there I felt very prepared for my match against him
Your 9pool certainly held up its end of the bargain. From what you've said, game 1 on Coda was an ideal situation for you: PiG opened hatch first against your 9pool, and you ended up killing 8 drones. After that you moved into a solid +1/speed roach composition and cleaned it up. Please share with us how winning that crucial first game in the Challenger round felt. Did it have any impact on your subsequent games and choice of strategies?
Yeah honestly it felt awesome. Everything went exactly how I wanted and I was able to clean him up pretty easily. It felt good but I knew it was still early days in the series yet so I was mostly trying to keep myself focused and ready to go for the next games. As far as subsequent games, I had faith in my preparation and knew that I'd stick with what I'd practised no matter what.
Seems like a good mindset for high level competition. Things didn't quite go to plan in game two on Expedition Lost, where PiG held your Roach/Bane with 5 spinecrawlers then denied your third multiple times with his mutalisks. After that PiG's lead led eventually to his win. To indulge in some theorycrafting, if there was anything you could do differently with that game on Expedition Lost, how would you approach it?
I was really nervous in game 1 and 2 and I think my execution was just lacking with the roach bane. Like I said, in practice no one had even come close to defending but with his excellent speedling use to delay my reinforcements I couldn't make it happen. I really feel like if I kept my cool and was on top of my multitasking I could've broken him right there and took the quick 2-0 lead.
Unfortunately doesn't always go down the way you planned but I still felt good for the rest of the games especially as I settled in and the nerves started to ease.
Game three on Vaani was another 9-pool, and you managed your goal of three drone kills against PiG's pool first opening. However, PiG's speedlings served to delay your third base again, leading to another economical lead and eventual win. First of all, I'd like to say I was impressed by the extractor+transfuse micro you used to save the hatchery drone. However, at the end of the game you were 1-2 with PiG and about to enter what might have been the last game of your WCS run. Was it easy keeping your focus and morale together? Did you feel any additional pressure as you went into the next game?
Yeah definitely, being a game away from elimination ups the stakes tremendously and game 3 kind of went by in a blur. He definitely showed his class in that game and it was really scary. It's tough with these big series because you really don't have much time between games and I was trying to take a few seconds to recover from the consecutive losses and keep my head in check and before I knew it game 4 was loading and I had to get my game face on real quick. I remember thinking how I wished I could've played this without the stream so I could take a minute to grab a drink and take a time out but that's part of competition and something I've got to learn to deal with for the future.
A Queen's love for her Drones is a beautiful thing
Game four showed us your +1 carapace speedling/bane build, and after a vicious 7 minutes of ling/bane exchanges you finally cut down PiG's economy to a point he couldn't recover from, and you tied the series up. From a viewer's perspective the game was an exciting match full of non-stop engagements and micro. How was it from a player's perspective to take on PiG head to head in that kind of micro war?
Well after he scouted my build I was really quite worried. Theoretically, I had no business holding his initial wave of aggression but after I managed to fend that off, I felt quite good about my position in the game. Once my carapace finished up I knew it was only a matter of time and as long as I just kept the pressure up he'd never be able stabilise and I'd be able to take him out. Within doing this I had to stay on my toes to keep my losses to a minimum but in the long run I was very confident in my advantages after not dying before the upgrade finished.
Incidentally, I actually think I was behind in units lost when he gg'd by about 500 resouces (I could be wrong on this but I'm pretty sure this was the case) so I didn't really even get the best trades with him but my advantage was just too much for him to recover from.
Game Five felt like the kind of straight-up macro game you'd wanted to play on Expedition Lost. You again opted for the +1 carapace build and when you scouted that PiG was droning rather than amassing units, you slammed down a third base at 7m30 and sent off a small force of ling/bane to keep PiG at home. From there you built an economic and upgrade advantage that you never lost hold of. Was there a moment in that game, before the GG, where you thought 'Hey, I have this. I've done it'?
The importance of upgrades and concaves!
Before:
After:
Won't somebody please think of the drones?!?!
As my first roach attack pushed through his army at his third base and killed so many drones I knew I'd done it. But as he cleaned up my roaches in his natural I had to bring myself back to the present - the game wasn't over yet. So I pulled back and grouped everything together and went again and as I pushed through and sniped that roach warren. It was amazing. I didn't know what to do with myself, I was shouting and yelling and fist pumping and I didn't know what to do. There was a 5 minute delay on the stream so I didn't know if I should message my friend or let them watch or not but I couldn't wait. The logs for your pleasure haha:
[18/04/2015 2:08:30 PM] Hayden 'Wally' Bell: dude
[18/04/2015 2:08:34 PM] Hayden 'Wally' Bell: he can just pressure now
[18/04/2015 2:08:36 PM] Hayden 'Wally' Bell: he sees the lair
[18/04/2015 2:09:53 PM] Hayden 'Wally' Bell: hmm
[18/04/2015 2:10:01 PM] Ryan Jones: spoilers lads
[18/04/2015 2:10:02 PM] Hayden 'Wally' Bell: this is going ok for ryan
[18/04/2015 2:10:02 PM] Ryan Jones: we made it
[18/04/2015 2:10:04 PM] Ryan Jones: WE MADE IT
[18/04/2015 2:10:04 PM] Hayden 'Wally' Bell: AKJLETBNAJKUTBAEKJYAEY
[18/04/2015 2:10:05 PM] Hayden 'Wally' Bell: ARY
[18/04/2015 2:10:05 PM] Hayden 'Wally' Bell: RA
[18/04/2015 2:10:05 PM] Hayden 'Wally' Bell: R
[18/04/2015 2:10:05 PM] Hayden 'Wally' Bell: TEU
[18/04/2015 2:10:05 PM] Hayden 'Wally' Bell: T
[18/04/2015 2:10:05 PM] Hayden 'Wally' Bell: UD
[18/04/2015 2:10:05 PM] Hayden 'Wally' Bell: Y
[18/04/2015 2:10:06 PM] Hayden 'Wally' Bell: YU
[18/04/2015 2:10:06 PM] Hayden 'Wally' Bell: YU
[18/04/2015 2:10:06 PM] Hayden 'Wally' Bell: ITY
[18/04/2015 2:10:06 PM] Hayden 'Wally' Bell: I
[18/04/2015 2:10:06 PM] Hayden 'Wally' Bell: YI
[18/04/2015 2:10:06 PM] Hayden 'Wally' Bell: RI
[18/04/2015 2:10:06 PM] Lawrence Ho: OMG
[18/04/2015 2:10:07 PM] Hayden 'Wally' Bell: Y
[18/04/2015 2:10:07 PM] Hayden 'Wally' Bell: U
[18/04/2015 2:10:07 PM] Hayden 'Wally' Bell: Y;KETRYJSTY
[18/04/2015 2:10:07 PM] Hayden 'Wally' Bell: STR
[18/04/2015 2:10:07 PM] Hayden 'Wally' Bell: USY
[18/04/2015 2:10:09 PM] Hayden 'Wally' Bell: OMG
[18/04/2015 2:10:10 PM] Hayden 'Wally' Bell: RIS
[18/04/2015 2:10:10 PM] Hayden 'Wally' Bell: YI
[18/04/2015 2:10:10 PM] Hayden 'Wally' Bell: YRI
[18/04/2015 2:10:10 PM] Hayden 'Wally' Bell: SRY
[18/04/2015 2:10:11 PM] Hayden 'Wally' Bell: OMG
[18/04/2015 2:10:12 PM] Hayden 'Wally' Bell: RYAN
[18/04/2015 2:10:13 PM] Hayden 'Wally' Bell: I AM
[18/04/2015 2:10:13 PM] Hayden 'Wally' Bell: SO *******
[18/04/2015 2:10:15 PM] Hayden 'Wally' Bell: PROUD
[18/04/2015 2:10:16 PM] Hayden 'Wally' Bell: HOLY S
[18/04/2015 2:10:18 PM] Hayden 'Wally' Bell: IM CRYING
[18/04/2015 2:10:18 PM] Ryan Jones: WE DID IT LADS
[18/04/2015 2:10:19 PM] Ryan Jones: WE MADE IT
[18/04/2015 2:10:19 PM] Hayden 'Wally' Bell: WE DID IT
[18/04/2015 2:10:20 PM] Hayden 'Wally' Bell: THE CS
[18/04/2015 2:10:21 PM] Hayden 'Wally' Bell: GO
[18/04/2015 2:10:23 PM] Hayden 'Wally' Bell: BROS
[18/04/2015 2:10:24 PM] Hayden 'Wally' Bell: WE
[18/04/2015 2:10:25 PM] Hayden 'Wally' Bell: DID
[18/04/2015 2:10:26 PM] Hayden 'Wally' Bell: IT
[18/04/2015 2:10:28 PM] Hayden 'Wally' Bell: RYAN
It was honestly torture to wait because I was so excited but I tuned into the stream and watched the final moments and it was incredible. Seeing Maynarde getting so excited was so strange because it still hadn't sunk in; I'd done it, I'd made premier and I did it by beating someone who I've respected for years. It was huge!
Every WCS success needs a fistpump gif. Here's one we prepared earlier. A couple of years earlier
It was a brilliant moment, and you weren't the only person fist-pumping, I can tell you that much! So now that you've made it, tell me a little about what happens next: what are your preparations for sitting in front of a live audience and playing the people who made Ro32? Have you got more practice partners lined up for ZvP and ZvT?
I honestly don't know yet. My plan is to try get my skill up as much as I can in the coming weeks and get fully stuck into focused preparation with practice partners once I know exactly who's in my group. I have no idea how I'll deal with the pressures of playing overseas against such tough competition but I look forward to it and you never know, maybe I can slip through into one of those coveted ro16 spots
Whatever happens, rest assured there'll be a lot of people cheering you on when the time comes! Finally do you have any words for the fans you've made? Any shout outs, call outs, or sponsor messages you'd like to share?
Fans I've made? haha damn that's crazy to think about.
All I can say is I really appreciate the support. It really felt like I had so many people backing me and that gave me a lot of strength to play as well as I could and make it this far.
Of course a big thank you to my new team Silicon Sports. Check them out, we've got a lot of cool stuff going on so I really encourage you to give them a like or a follow on the twits and facebook. Also huge thank you to Lawrence who helped me so much with my preparation for the series with PiG. I don't think I would've come even halfway close without him to practice with and bounce ideas off and I really appreciate his support. He recently made a highlight video of my series vs PiG which you can check out here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GMZ7OwQ_Dc
Big shout out to the rest of the kids, David and Hayden for being super cool and probably the reason I'm back playing this game again.
Oh I'll definitely have some fun with the call outs:
Frustration, you've never beaten me in a series and you probably never will, please stop.
Demilove: You talk a lot of game for someone who's never taken a bo3 against me, maybe next time you won't "throw" and play "terribly".
Lastly, big thanks to you for doing this interview, love your work
My pleasure! Ryan, thank you again for taking the time to have a chat with me today, and I wish you the best of fortune in WCS Season 2's Ro32 bracket!
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It was fantastic to be able to get such a detailed look into the preparation which allowed SEA's newest entry into WCS Premier. I look forward to the Ro32, and I'm sure we'll all be cheering Ryan on alongside Iaguz and Petraeus when the time comes. Here's hoping for all of our guys in Ro16!
I remember seeing the result and instantly going "What the ****?" but i was so happy for you man. Just wish you didn't have to beat my teammate to do it haha. Next brisbane LAN (Probably some time in 2030) you buy lunch pls
Edit: Highlight video was SICK! HYPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
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Namakaye-I GOT THIS!! Part of x5's Academy and Clans IXL and sR 2.0. herO #1. Editor
Absolute tremendous feat, the vibe in the ACL studio after the GG was one of shock. Hands on head in amazement! Congrats again Ryan, good luck in a few weeks.
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