[TheWildRide]

Hi everyone,

Could someone please fill me in on what the current "standard" army compositions are for Terran match-ups? Back in WoL days I played marine/tank/viking for TvT, bio for TvP and mech for TvZ with moderate success. Are these still correct, or has the metagame shifted?

In a similar vein, what build orders should I be using? All the advice I can find online is outdated and most still recommend 1 rax FE's - which I've read to be much worse nowadays. Any help would be appreciated.

[ChowMuddha]

this is currently the build i use in tvp you will have to note down the build but i have been pretty successful with this build also taking a fast third whilst im harrassing. also this opening helps deal with oracle/stargate openings.

You Tube

You Tube

[ChowMuddha]

if you want i can also send u a couple of replays if it helps

[ToRRedemption]

Its kind of hard to say cos the game is still new but, i like opening reaper expand in HoTS cos of the no tech lab needed and no need for speed upgrade. I'm really just adding widow mines to my WoL army compositions with the occasional hell bat and abusing the new medivac speed. Its been working very well for me. Try to watch more pros and tournaments to keep up with current builds and meta cos it will be the most thought out and most builds there are to offer currently. hoped that helped.

[TheWildRide]

Thanks, sounds like a good time to experiment. I've been playing AI matches, opening with 1 rax FE's and going for marine/tank/viking for TvT, MMM for TvP and hellbat/tank/thor for TvZ, which is working quite well right now - time to try it in the ladder I s'pose!

[TheWildRide]

Found this online. (Source: http://www.gamerevolution.com/faq/st...er-guide-78769)

TvX Reaper Hellion Build

10 Supply Depot
12 Barracks
12 Refinery
15 Scout
15 Orbital Command
15 Reaper
16 Supply Depot
17 Reaper
20 Command Center
20 Factory
21 Reactor Upgrade On Barracks
23 Supply Depot
24 2 Hellions
25 Tech Lab On Barracks
29 Starport
30 Refinery
31 2 Hellions
37 Supply Depot
@8:00 3rd Command Center
@8:15 Stop making Reapers and Hellions, transition Hellions into Hellbats

*The numbers on the left indicate the timings based on either how many drones you have built or at what time you should think about performing the next step.

Reapers and Hellions have seen a lot of love in HOTS, with Reapers being far more potent with early game harass and Hellions transitioning into mid and late-game with the Hellbat upgrade. With the Reaper Hellion build you’re given the best harassment options early game. You can choose to stunt your opponent’s progress with regular pokes, or you can choose to use your speed advantage to kite aggressive enemy units.

During the first eight minutes you’re going to want to focus entirely on mobility. You’re going to have the best harassment capability unless your opponent is a Terran utilizing a similar build. How you choose to employ your fast army is up to you, but the more units or workers you can kill off during the early game the better off you’ll be after transitioning into mid-game.

After the eight minute mark you’ll want to go strictly biological with your standard Marauder, Marines, and Medivac groups. Transition your Hellions into Hellbats so they fit into your squads. You may even want to make a few Siege Tanks now that the Siege upgrade has been made standard, or build 3-4 Widow Mines to pressure the expansions of the enemy or thwart enemy pushes that aren't accompanied by sight.

Thoughts on this build? Is it viable, for some matchups at least (if not all as advertised)? I noticed what I percieve to be a few errors (i.e. 12 refinery? Shouldn't that be 13 or 14?). Any corrections to be made to make it usable?

The same website also has Protoss and Zerg "vX" build orders, for those interested (may be worth a new thread if they're viable, so they don't get lost in this Terran thread).

http://www.gamerevolution.com/faq/st...er-guide-78767
http://www.gamerevolution.com/faq/st...er-guide-78771

[Pox]

Originally Posted by TheWildRide

12 refinery? Shouldn't that be 13 or 14

If you 13 gas then you only have ~25 gas when the barracks finishes; so with no tech lab required 12 gas gets you a faster reaper.

[TheWildRide]

Originally Posted by Av.ToRPox

If you 13 gas then you only have ~25 gas when the barracks finishes; so with no tech lab required 12 gas gets you a faster reaper.

So should I pause SCV production at 12, then continue once I start my refinery? I definitely won't have the minerals to make both a barracks AND a refinery at 12 supply and still constantly make SCV's.

[Pox]

Yeah, delay the 13th scv for a few seconds.

[TheWildRide]

Thanks. Should I only make the two reapers? After the second one the barracks appears to be tied up creating add-ons (reactor for the factory, I'm guessing, since it says to make 2 hellions at a time; and tech lab for marauders - is this right?) but then later in the build it says to "stop making reapers", implying I was still making them.

Also there's an error in the supply depots, the one made at 23 supply will only push the max up to 35, but the next one isn't until 37. Where should I insert another depot?

Another question - should I move the reapers out together or one at a time? Same with the hellions, move them out in the pairs they're made in or wait until the 3rd and 4th are made and send them all together?

Any comments on the viability of this build in general? Is it a common strategy?

[YoonBaekHee]

widow mine expands in tvp seem to be the new thing. keeps you safe from proxy oracles etc

[DeathlyJO]

For compositions, TvT is still
Marine tank vs marine tank but with a lot more early game aggression.
TvP is still mmm into ghost Viking but need rapid scouting cause toss have too many opening (oracle, dts, voidrays)
TvZ is bio mine into ravern bio mines.
For buildorders, u can try gosubuilds.com

[|Erasmus|]

Originally Posted by DeathlyJO

For compositions, TvT is still
Marine tank vs marine tank but with a lot more early game aggression

There are a lot of TvT openers that transition into mech. Which is more than viable on most maps.

[DeathlyJO]

Originally Posted by |Erasmus|

There are a lot of TvT openers that transition into mech. Which is more than viable on most maps.

True but when I play TvT on kr and sea it's mainly marine tank vs marine tank. Maybe 2-3/10 games will be against mech

[DeathlyJO]

Oh and hellbat siege tank against toss is pretty imba

[faithHunter]

Originally Posted by DeathlyJO

Oh and hellbat siege tank against toss is pretty imba

Speaking of Hellbat Siege tank TvP, here's the daily where Day9 discusses the playstyle:

+ Show +

You Tube

You Tube

Regarding builds, my standard build order in every matchup is always 1rax expand then go transition into whatever strategy I want, but Reaper expands are very popular nowadays. The most standard unit composition per matchup is:

TvT : Marine Tank, pure bio, mech.
TvZ : MMMM or Mech
TvP : MMMVG, occasionally mech.

Also, the Terran help me thread in TL will help immensely in...helping you.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=402751

Just gonna quote the standard unit compositions and builds from that site here:

+ Show +

TvT

Gas 15 Marine Marine reactor CC fact port with Reactor Hellions + Viking(s) or Medivac before a bio or mech transition. Bogus/Innovation vs Flash, Neo Planet S, MLG.
If you see any reference about the "LG-IM build order," it's about the core of this build.
Some kind of Reaper expand into 1-1-1 with the same possibilities as above. Dream vs Mvp, Akilon Wastes, IEM [starts at 0:05:12].
The Reaper(s) give(s) you extra scouting possibilities. The old gasless 1 rax expand is possible too with some precautionary measures (see "Is gasless 1 rax expand still viable? in the TvT section below).
Some kind of Reaper expand into 3 rax Medivacs with EB before Factory (bio/biomech). Taeja vs FanTaSy, Star Station, Code S; Apocalypse vs Dream, Star Station, ATC.
Same as above.
Reactor Hellion expand with an early Armory and a Starport (mech, drop Hellbats). ForGG vs LucifroN, Star Station, ATC Karont3 vs Millenium.
1-1-1 expand. Mvp vs YoDa, Antiga, IEM [starts at 0:28:25].
Can be played defensively or offensively depending on what your opponent is doing.


Both Marines/Tanks and mech are viable midgame. Against mech, both pure bio → air and bio/Tanks are feasible. Pure bio is not viable against Marines/Tanks.

TvZ

Proxy 11/11 (or 11/12, or 12/12) with at least 3 SCVs pulled. Flash vs Life, Newkirk City, MLG; Last vs Stephano, Cloud Kingdom, MLG.
Proxy Reapers (11r 11g or 12r 12g) into fact CC CC or CC fact CC. Mvp vs Stephano, Akilon Wastes, IEM [starts at 0:19:36]; Last vs Life, Akilon Wastes, MLG.
CC rax gas fact reactor CC with a bio transition behind 6 Hellions and 2 Mines. Flash vs Ret, Cloud Kingdom, MLG.
Some kind of Reaper expand, with or without Bunker pressure, into fact reactor CC with a bio transition behind 6 Hellions and 2 Mines. Flash vs bly, Neo Planet S, MLG.
Gasless 1 rax FE and 1 rax gas 15 expand are also possible.
Agressive Hellions/Banshees (particularly for mech). Sting vs Ret, Ohana, IEM [starts at 0:52:57] for a mech transition; Flash vs Soulkey, Newkirk Precinct, SPL Special match for a 4M transition. Other Starport-based harass are possible, generally with an early Armory for Hellbats drops if you want to mech: LucifroN vs HyuN, Newkirk Precinct, ATC.


4M (Marines/Marauders/Medivacs/Mines), Marines/Tanks and mech are viable midgame.

TvP

Gas 15 Marine Marine reactor CC fact port making two Mines and a Medivac with a bio transition (ideally rax rax lab lab EB reactor). YoDa vs First, IEM (except the Entombed Valley game); Bogus vs MC, MLG; Flash vs PartinG, Neo Planet S and Akilon Wastes, MLG.
Can be played defensively or offensively depending on what Protoss is doing and whether he expanded or not. Offensive possibilities include poking his natural with some Marines + 2 Mines and the Medivac, dropping 1-2 Mine(s) + Marines or only Marines, or even just flying over the Protoss base with the Medivac to scout what he's doing. You also have the option to get Vikings and extra Mines against agressive Stargate play.
Some kind of Reaper expand into 1-1-1 (or at least Factory) with a bio transition. Polt vs Creator, Daybreak, IPL FC 48; Polt vs Creator, Akilon Wastes, IPL FC 48; Bogus vs Rain, Whirlwind, MLG.
A commonly used build order is rax 12 gas 12 reaper reactor CC bunk (if needed) fact port.
Some kind of Reaper expand into 3 rax with an early EB if needed and possibly a quick Stim. Polt vs HerO, Cloud Kingdom, MLG Showdowns; Polt vs HerO, Entombed Valley, MLG Showdowns; and Bomber vs Creator, GSL (all games except the Whirlwind one from the first series); Flash vs jangbi, Akilon Wastes, 2013 Korea AIMAG.
The EB can be built at a standard WoL timing if you can rule out Oracle play with your scouting, or you can build that quick EB anyway to get fast upgrades.
Some kind of rax fact or 1-1-1 expand with an early Armory (mech). Taeja vs SaSe, Neo Planet S, MLG.
You can also play bio after such openings, without the Armory of course.
CC first or gasless 1 rax expand at your own risk (see "Are gasless expands still viable?" in the TvP section below) and with an early EB against Protoss going dual gas. Ryung vs MC, Star Station, GSTL.


Bio is still standard. Mech is vaguely playable but considerably inferior.

[DeathlyJO]

Originally Posted by faithHunter

TvT : Marine Tank, pure bio, mech.

When u say pure bio, u mean pure marines?

[ToRSpookToR]

MMM 10char